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Albums & Other Releases - Audible crackling on Equinoxe III (1985->1996)

Phil - Tue May 13, 2014 1:12 pm
Post subject: Audible crackling on Equinoxe III (1985->1996)
Do you notice that ? :?

At about 9-10 seconds in, there is audible crackling in the left channel - confirmed this in the following issues :
- Polydor WG 800025-2 04 (10th anniversary box set)
- Polydor FR 800025-2 05
- Disques Dreyfus FR 824747-2 DCO 2000 MPO 01
- FDM 36141-2 DCO 824747-2 MPO 09 (1992)


Below Equinoxe III on CD between 1983-2011 : (6 Mastering)
Note: Since 1997, channels are reversed.


800 025 02 and 800 025 03 also have "peaks" on the left channel, but I do not hear the crackling noise (!).

The "first CD" (Polydor with red face - 800 025 01) has none of these peaks and therefore seems to me to be more faithful to the original recording.

The "MFSL" version (1995) is also excellent.

shadow - Tue May 13, 2014 4:05 pm

Maybe print error it happens. I can't tell myself since I only have the 1997 remastered by Hull and the amazingly hilarious Essentials and Rarities. The vinyl however I can confirm there's no crackle, or pop at the given locations you've pointed out on the images.

But thanks for pointing it out however, now I know which original '83 CD not to buy! :fine:

Dr_Jones - Wed May 14, 2014 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Audible crackling on Equinoxe III (1985->1996)
Great analysis. I did notice the crackling on the first CD release myself, and it was gone on the MFSL release. This is why I use that album as my standard Equinoxe release.
I'm curious to know if the 2014 remaster has it.

Phil - Wed May 14, 2014 12:26 pm

Thanks. :)

DR_Jones wrote:
I'm curious to know if the 2014 remaster has it.

2014 should be the same as 2011 (24 -> 16 bit), it's the same sound engineer, David Perreau. :wink: (David Perreau sound like "David Père Eau" = Dave DadWater in english, the name written in booklet)

I think the crackling is audible on all CD (Polydor/Dreyfus) sold between 1985 and 1997 (before Scott Hull Remastering).

Before 1985, the very first mastering is the best, it's the only one (i found) without those "abnormal peaks". (1983 - Polydor 800 025-2 01 - Red Face - Discog)


VinylScratch - Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:35 pm

I have one of those "crackling" Equinoxe CDs - not complaining, though - it reminds me a bit of playing a vinyl LP :wink:
I'll take one of those over the louder remasters any day of the week.

thhedk - Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Audible crackling on Equinoxe III (1985->1996)
Phil wrote:
Do you notice that ? :?


I guess you have the answer from Michel Geiss here :)

Jean-Michel allow me to thank you publicly.
After 40 years, I finally confessed to you a few days ago what had happened to me one morning at the studio during the recordings of Equinoxe, a terrible memory.
After engaging the 16-track tape on the tape recorder, setting it to play ... disaster! horror! The tape had twisted and crumpled at the beginning of the recording of side A. No reproach from you after this revelation ;-)
It must be said that miraculously nothing was noticed ;-)
It took me as long to make this admission! So thanks for your understanding. I plead guilty and I promise to pay attention next time

:D

Dr_Jones - Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:24 pm

So, it's all Geiss' fault?
shadow - Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:40 pm

So after the innitial press the magnetic tape got wrecked a bit?
Phil - Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:22 am

Dr_Jones wrote:
So, it's all Geiss' fault?

No no it's not Michel Geiss fault ;-)

In the same thread (facebook) someone asks if this has caused the problem on Equinoxe part 3, and he has answered "Zeus was the one ;-) " :

Finaero - Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:06 pm

Now I know what you've been talking about all this time (just remembered that I got a hold of the 1991 Digitally Remastered CD version earlier this year, so I checked this out). ;)

Got to say, these random cracklings are still far more enjoyable than:
- Chronologie 8's ending Swatch sounds starting far earlier (and out of sync) than in the previous versions in the Dadwater remaster
- Well, any Dadwater remaster really

Phil - Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:17 pm

These cracklings on Equinoxe 3 appeared with new mix of Equinoxe 5 (probably created in May 1979), on "1983" new Tape Master, but only became audible with "digital" remastering in 1986-87.

Finaero wrote:
Now I know what you've been talking about all this time (just remembered that I got a hold of the 1991 Digitally Remastered CD version earlier this year, so I checked this out). ;)

Got to say, these random cracklings are still far more enjoyable than:
- Chronologie 8's ending Swatch sounds starting far earlier (and out of sync) than in the previous versions in the Dadwater remaster
- Well, any Dadwater remaster really

+1 :wink:

Velodynamic - Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:08 am

I think the distortion at 2:48 into Equinoxe V is probably more noticeble yes. :nod:
Phil - Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:02 pm

Velodynamic wrote:
I think the distortion at 2:48 into Equinoxe IV is probably more noticeble yes. :nod:

On which master ? :?

On Equinoxe III it's already very noticeable.. :(
Equinoxe 3 ("8000025-2 01" - 1983) - Very Good (35s)
Equinoxe 3 (CD 1987) - Crackling (35s)

Finaero - Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:30 pm

This one, perhaps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s...tAfmHY2FQa?dl=0

(1991 from the Digitally Remastered series, 1995A from the MFSL CD and 1995B from the MFSL LP)

Phil - Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:50 pm

Finaero wrote:
This one, perhaps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s...tAfmHY2FQa?dl=0

(1991 from the Digitally Remastered series, 1995A from the MFSL CD and 1995B from the MFSL LP)

Compared to Equinoxe III "1986-1996" (with crackling & "metallic" water for very longs seconds), nothing noticeable here for me. :pwned:

Finaero - Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:23 pm

Oh, definitely agreed!

Also reminds me of the extra noise audible in the sound effects of Oxygene 1 in the 2007 remastered edition (not present in any other edition, even the Dadwater stuff, IIRC)... but that remaster still remains unique in the regard that the "bubbling transition" between Oxygene 4 and 5 begins much later in the 2007 version - while that doesn't really improve the track, it's still unique and a nice bonus. ;)

(Hearing Oxygene 10 in-between the opening laser harp notes of Oxygene 7 still is a nicer "easter egg" to me, though https://www.dropbox.com/s...h/1997.wav?dl=0 ;) )

(Removing the WAVs tomorrow!)

Velodynamic - Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:47 am

Phil wrote:
Velodynamic wrote:
I think the distortion at 2:48 into Equinoxe IV is probably more noticeble yes. :nod:

On which master ? :?

Sorry, I meant V (part 5) nothing else. My bad. :P

Phil - Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:24 pm

Finaero wrote:
... (Hearing Oxygene 10 in-between the opening laser harp notes of Oxygene 7 still is a nicer "easter egg" to me, though https://www.dropbox.com/s...h/1997.wav?dl=0 ;) )

Nice "easter egg". :wink: (It's really disappointing to see all these faulty remastering. :( )

Velodynamic wrote:
Sorry, I meant V (part 5) nothing else. My bad. :P

Oh ok, i heard it. :-) (a nice little sound compared to the crunches on Equinox 3 :nod: )
And thank you, because now i'm 100% convinced that Equinoxe V new mix (on all Equinoxe albums since ~1983 and "800025-2 02" CD) come from may 1979 : https://www.discogs.com/f.../release/540576

shadow - Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:17 pm

Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?
Jote - Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:23 pm

shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?


Both versions of Equinoxe V are available on CD.

Dr_Jones - Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:29 pm

shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?


The remix is what you hear on every CD except 800025-2 01.

Phil - Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:34 pm

shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?

Equinoxe V :
CD "800025-2 01" = Original Mix. (First Equinoxe's CD : ~1983)
CD "800025-2 02" = First CD with New Mix. (The new Tape Master used has crunches on Equinoxe III and distortion on new Equinoxe V at 2:48 :| )

shadow - Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:25 pm

I meant the 45 Maxi remix of 4 posted the post directly above my previous post, that the album CD has two mixes I know, I was the one who raised the question about the vinyl mix being on CD :P
Phil - Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:29 pm

shadow wrote:
I meant the 45 Maxi remix of 4 posted the post directly above my previous post, that the album CD has two mixes I know, I was the one who raised the question about the vinyl mix being on CD :P

Not to my knowledge. (I have not seen a CD reissue on Discog.)

Unofficial Release (from Chile) - Remastered sound from the blue vinyl : https://www.discogs.com/f...release/7148196 :wink:

Dr_Jones - Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:56 pm

Nope, never has. I once asked the guy who compiled those CDs which had Rendez-Vous 4, Zoolook and Zoolookologie 12" mixes if he had the rights to publish Equinoxe 4 12" version too and yes, he has. But he hasn't released it yet.
jarreaus - Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Phil wrote:
shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?

Equinoxe V :
CD "800025-2 01" = Original Mix. (First Equinoxe's CD : ~1983)
CD "800025-2 02" = First CD with New Mix. (The new Tape Master used has crunches on Equinoxe III and distortion on new Equinoxe V at 2:48 :| )


What was the stereo image configuration of the original mix CD? I have the 'standard' Polydor CD version with the crackling on E3 as mentioned (although I've never noticed the distortion on E5) and also the 1997 Sony remaster with the 'corrected' stereo channel image. The reason I ask is that I noticed the Equinoxe edits on the 1983 The Essential compilation has E3 without the crackling and also the stereo configuration the same as the 1997 remaster (which was reverse of the common Polydor version).

Phil - Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:32 pm

jarreaus wrote:
Phil wrote:
shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?

Equinoxe V :
CD "800025-2 01" = Original Mix. (First Equinoxe's CD : ~1983)
CD "800025-2 02" = First CD with New Mix. (The new Tape Master used has crunches on Equinoxe III and distortion on new Equinoxe V at 2:48 :| )


What was the stereo image configuration of the original mix CD? I have the 'standard' Polydor CD version with the crackling on E3 as mentioned (although I've never noticed the distortion on E5) and also the 1997 Sony remaster with the 'corrected' stereo channel image. The reason I ask is that I noticed the Equinoxe edits on the 1983 The Essential compilation has E3 without the crackling and also the stereo configuration the same as the 1997 remaster (which was reverse of the common Polydor version).


It's not always easy to determine if there has been channel inversion even with headphones (this is especially true with the Zoolook album and its 1997 remastering), so waveforms can help. :)

From what I see of these waveforms, the stereo image looks the same only on the first Equinoxe CD and the first 'The Essential' compilation.


(You can click to enlarge. There is several other remastering on the previous page :idea: )

jarreaus - Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:24 pm

Phil wrote:
jarreaus wrote:
Phil wrote:
shadow wrote:
Was the remix ever given a digital release? Or still officially only on the vinyl?

Equinoxe V :
CD "800025-2 01" = Original Mix. (First Equinoxe's CD : ~1983)
CD "800025-2 02" = First CD with New Mix. (The new Tape Master used has crunches on Equinoxe III and distortion on new Equinoxe V at 2:48 :| )


What was the stereo image configuration of the original mix CD? I have the 'standard' Polydor CD version with the crackling on E3 as mentioned (although I've never noticed the distortion on E5) and also the 1997 Sony remaster with the 'corrected' stereo channel image. The reason I ask is that I noticed the Equinoxe edits on the 1983 The Essential compilation has E3 without the crackling and also the stereo configuration the same as the 1997 remaster (which was reverse of the common Polydor version).


It's not always easy to determine if there has been channel inversion even with headphones (this is especially true with the Zoolook album and its 1997 remastering), so waveforms can help. :)

From what I see of these waveforms, the stereo image looks the same only on the first Equinoxe CD and the first 'The Essential' compilation.

[url=https://zupimages.net/up/18/41/ggcz.png]Image[/url]
(You can click to enlarge. There is several other remastering on the previous page :idea: )


Ahh I worked out what the problem is. All tracks on my copy of The Essential have the stereo image reversed however I'm listening to it from my iPod which I ripped from the CD. It's possible iTunes decoded it wrong. I'll dig out the CD in the next few days to check.

So basically all versions of Equinoxe before 1997 have the same stereo image including the original 'redface' press?

Phil - Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:48 pm

jarreaus wrote:
(...) So basically all versions of Equinoxe before 1997 have the same stereo image including the original 'redface' press?

Yes that's what we can observe.. but a glassmaster error remains possible. :mrgreen: (According to an interview with JMJ in a Keyboards Mag, there are some albums of Oxygen produced before 1997 with the inverted channels .. the result of a bad "glassmaster".)

Jote - Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:11 pm

So... which stereo image is the correct one?
Phil - Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:10 pm

Jote wrote:
So... which stereo image is the correct one?

It would be surprising if JMJ didn't validate this change (same for the Zoolook album), but he's the only one who can answer.

Both versions have been produced for 20 years, so maybe that's not important. (In a general way with JMJ's albums I tend to regard the original mastering on CD as the good one.)

Finaero - Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:33 pm

For comparison's sake, here's Equinoxe 4 (from the top: 1978 French LP, 1991 Digitally Remastered CD, 1995 MFSL CD):


jarreaus - Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 am

Phil wrote:
jarreaus wrote:
(...) So basically all versions of Equinoxe before 1997 have the same stereo image including the original 'redface' press?

Yes that's what we can observe.. but a glassmaster error remains possible. :mrgreen: (According to an interview with JMJ in a Keyboards Mag, there are some albums of Oxygen produced before 1997 with the inverted channels .. the result of a bad "glassmaster".)


That must of been what happened with my edition of The Essential – I just checked and it's definitely the CD itself. This is the Australian pressed version. So Polygram Australia must of utilised a glass master with the reverse stereo image.

jarreaus - Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:41 am

Phil wrote:
Jote wrote:
So... which stereo image is the correct one?

It would be surprising if JMJ didn't validate this change (same for the Zoolook album), but he's the only one who can answer.

Both versions have been produced for 20 years, so maybe that's not important. (In a general way with JMJ's albums I tend to regard the original mastering on CD as the good one.)


I recall back in 1997 Sony claimed that the original was incorrect and that they 'corrected' it with the remastering process. (However it appears the Band in the Rain section of Equinoxe 8 they kept the same as before – moves gradually from left to right).

Something I recall an audio engineer said to me years ago was that it was common mixing practice to have the primary sound more to the left and the delays more to the right. If that be the case then the 1997 onward versions of Equinoxe with the channels switched seem to convey that aesthetic so maybe it was a correction after all. Moreover Oxygene also seems to be mixed that way.

Analog-Umph - Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:34 pm

Finaero wrote:
(Hearing Oxygene 10 in-between the opening laser harp notes of Oxygene 7 still is a nicer "easter egg" to me, though https://www.dropbox.com/s...h/1997.wav?dl=0 ;) )

(Removing the WAVs tomorrow!)

That link is dead, can you upload it again?

Finaero - Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:14 pm

Analog-Umph wrote:
Finaero wrote:
(Hearing Oxygene 10 in-between the opening laser harp notes of Oxygene 7 still is a nicer "easter egg" to me, though https://www.dropbox.com/s...h/1997.wav?dl=0 ;) )

(Removing the WAVs tomorrow!)

That link is dead, can you upload it again?


Here's a re-upload (for this weekend only ;) ): https://www.dropbox.com/s...MPLIFY.mp3?dl=0


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