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Oxygene 14-20
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Pat Gleeson 

Age: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:21 pm   

Oxygene 14 Vinyl / CD Comparison
_________________
Concerts attended:
Destination Docklands 1988
Paris la Defense 1990
Europe in Concert - Wembley Stadium 1993
Oxygene Tour - Wembley Arena 1997
Theatre Marigny Paris 2007
Oxygene Tour - NCH Dublin 2008
2010 Tour - The 02 Dublin The 02 London (10-10-10)
Electronica Tour - 3Arena Dublin 2016
 
Velodynamic 


Age: 41
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 7864
Location: Sweden, far north
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:51 pm   

Pat Gleeson wrote:
Velodynamic wrote:
If I was an artist with albums containing flatten out sound mixes like that however I wouldn't feel safe for one second.


Absolutely Velodynamic. The ironic / maddening / infuriating thing here is that CD and digital have the capability to better than vinyl if mastered properly. Listen to Mike Oldfield's RTO or Vangelis' 'Rosetta' *

* Apart from a few glitches ...


Ok so... Oxygene 3 CD:



...and just for the heaven and hell of it :twisted: , Vangelis - Rossetta CD:



Yello - Toy, a very long CD so I had to cut it down for similar proportions and deleted
one of the (quiet) tracks. Kind of a mixed bag but still pretty dynamic and
not only red points at dr database. http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/116334



We already know what Mike Oldfield's RTO sound curves (regardless formats) looks like, hands down case closed.
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"The worst thing in any form of art is to be betrayed by your own habits."
- JEAN MICHEL JARRE
 
feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:33 pm   

Pat Gleeson wrote:
Vinyl sounds better than CD / digital precisely because it can't be brick walled to the same extent - the damn stylus would skip off the platter. It's better by default. ...


that's a very odd way to think about it :lol:

The ideal delivery medium is transparent and has perfect fidelity to the finished mix from the multitrack.
CD, with its 44.1kHz 16bit PCM audio, *can* come very close perfect fidelity if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.
Vinyl can never come close to fidelity in a million years, and inevitably imparts a variety of audio distortions all of which are objectively measurable

Here are some good articles about it
http://www.soundonsound.c...not-best-medium
http://www.soundonsound.c...igital-releases
http://www.soundonsound.c...iness/hot-metal (this last one will make you weep when you learn the sorts of things that happen to reference lacquers!)
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feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:37 pm   

Velodynamic wrote:
So what about this "better" vinyl master, is it digital from the beginning before it becomes a vinyl record? How come we don't have direct access to download that one instead of the brick wall squashed shite?
In my world of thoughts it would've been much easier that way and saved the production one whole step! :roll:


The CD booklet says Oxygene 3 was recorded in Ableton Live on a MacBook Pro, so yes, the original multitrack and mixdown is all digital.
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Finaero 


Age: 28
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5132
Location: Finland
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:03 pm   

Depeche Mode's 2005 album "Playing the Angel" is a good example of the vinyl edition sounding better solely due to the vinyl mastering not being commercialized/half-assed/brickwalled - and in fact, the vinyl edition actually having a separate master.

In any case, a few months have passed since the release of the album. I must say, Oxygene 17 definitely is a true favorite of mine, and has passed Variation 3 in my "Top 4 Favorite Post-O7-13 Jarre tracks" list (Stardust, Paris Bourges, O17, Variation 3). 8)
 
shadow 


Age: 26
Joined: 11 Nov 2010
Posts: 1484
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:36 pm   

Oxygene 14-16 (honestly it's just one long track in my eyes) and 19 are my favorite. 17 is a fun upbeat track but nothing special, 18 is just boring though I get the idea and 20 while interesting execution I'm just not fan of it.
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Dr_Jones 


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 3427
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:56 pm   

feline1973 wrote:
Pat Gleeson wrote:
Vinyl sounds better than CD / digital precisely because it can't be brick walled to the same extent - the damn stylus would skip off the platter. It's better by default. ...


that's a very odd way to think about it :lol:

The ideal delivery medium is transparent and has perfect fidelity to the finished mix from the multitrack.
CD, with its 44.1kHz 16bit PCM audio, *can* come very close perfect fidelity if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.
Vinyl can never come close to fidelity in a million years, and inevitably imparts a variety of audio distortions all of which are objectively measurable

Here are some good articles about it
http://www.soundonsound.c...not-best-medium
http://www.soundonsound.c...igital-releases
http://www.soundonsound.c...iness/hot-metal (this last one will make you weep when you learn the sorts of things that happen to reference lacquers!)


THANK YOU very much for these articles.
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KHDownloads
 
HunterTech 

Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:18 am   

feline1973 wrote:
if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.


Which is why vinyl will continue to prevail in sales. Because the mastering engineer continues to remain a dick on digital media.
 
feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:00 am   

HunterTech wrote:
feline1973 wrote:
if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.


Which is why vinyl will continue to prevail in sales. Because the mastering engineer continues to remain a dick on digital media.


Hahah well there is that ;) .
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Finaero 


Age: 28
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5132
Location: Finland
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:16 am   

shadow wrote:
Oxygene 14-16 (honestly it's just one long track in my eyes) and 19 are my favorite. 17 is a fun upbeat track but nothing special, 18 is just boring though I get the idea and 20 while interesting execution I'm just not fan of it.


O18 reminds me quite a lot of "Celestial Whispers" from Vangelis' Rosetta, tho' I definitely prefer the latter (even though it's also more of a segue). ;)
 
feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:12 am   

Dr_Jones wrote:
THANK YOU very much for these articles.


Well don't thank me, thank Sound on Sound magazine. :D I've been a subscriber for years, it really is a very good source of reliable technical info.
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Jote 


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 525
Location: Lodz, Poland
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:37 pm   

HunterTech wrote:
feline1973 wrote:
if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.


Which is why vinyl will continue to prevail in sales. Because the mastering engineer continues to remain a dick on digital media.


With the ReplayGain gaining (sic) popularity this might change? I hope so...
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Pat Gleeson 

Age: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:02 pm   

feline1973 wrote:


that's a very odd way to think about it :lol:

CD, with its 44.1kHz 16bit PCM audio, *can* come very close perfect fidelity if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.


.. and if the mastering engineer is a total dick ?
My point precisely.
_________________
Concerts attended:
Destination Docklands 1988
Paris la Defense 1990
Europe in Concert - Wembley Stadium 1993
Oxygene Tour - Wembley Arena 1997
Theatre Marigny Paris 2007
Oxygene Tour - NCH Dublin 2008
2010 Tour - The 02 Dublin The 02 London (10-10-10)
Electronica Tour - 3Arena Dublin 2016
 
Pat Gleeson 

Age: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:09 pm   

feline1973 wrote:

Vinyl can never come close to fidelity in a million years, and inevitably imparts a variety of audio distortions all of which are objectively measurable


Again, I agree. The problem is that the so called 'loudness war' has meant mastering has become so loud that vinyl - with all the limitations you have outlined quite correctly - have to use quieter masters than the superior digital formats. Once such company - Audio Fidelity - insist on using only the original made-for-vinyl masters for their digital formats - SACD etc. The sound quality and dynamic range are fantastic.
_________________
Concerts attended:
Destination Docklands 1988
Paris la Defense 1990
Europe in Concert - Wembley Stadium 1993
Oxygene Tour - Wembley Arena 1997
Theatre Marigny Paris 2007
Oxygene Tour - NCH Dublin 2008
2010 Tour - The 02 Dublin The 02 London (10-10-10)
Electronica Tour - 3Arena Dublin 2016
 
Pat Gleeson 

Age: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:10 pm   

feline1973 wrote:

Well don't thank me, thank Sound on Sound magazine. :D I've been a subscriber for years, it really is a very good source of reliable technical info.


Thanks for finding the links all the same - very interesting articles ... :D
_________________
Concerts attended:
Destination Docklands 1988
Paris la Defense 1990
Europe in Concert - Wembley Stadium 1993
Oxygene Tour - Wembley Arena 1997
Theatre Marigny Paris 2007
Oxygene Tour - NCH Dublin 2008
2010 Tour - The 02 Dublin The 02 London (10-10-10)
Electronica Tour - 3Arena Dublin 2016
 
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