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Oxygene 14-20
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feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:16 pm   

Jote wrote:
HunterTech wrote:
feline1973 wrote:
if the mastering engineer isn't a total dick.


Which is why vinyl will continue to prevail in sales. Because the mastering engineer continues to remain a dick on digital media.


With the ReplayGain gaining (sic) popularity this might change? I hope so...


By "ReplayGain" I think you're alluding to things similar to the EBU R-128 "loudness normalisation" standard?
(Again, Sound on Sound did a good article on this - I linked to it about 20 pages back in this thread ;) http://www.soundonsound.c...nd-loudness-war )

Basically, I'm amazed that any professional mastering engineer is still churning out squashed crap like Dadwater, because due to EBU R-128, pretty much *EVERY* broadcast or streaming medium now (radio, television, Spotify, YouTube, Google Play, etc etc - and most hardware MP3 players as well) all use "loudness normalisation" to basically make everything they play the same subjective loudness level. So you CAN'T master a track to make it sound "really loud", as it just gets turned down when played, and so just sounds crap (lacking in dynamics).
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feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:18 pm   

Pat Gleeson wrote:

.. and if the mastering engineer is a total dick ?
My point precisely.


Yeah, and Dadwater does definately seem to be a dick!
The more I listen to Oxygene 3 (ripped from the CD to lossless FLAC, mostly listening on a Sony Walkman with nice MDR-1000 headphones :) ) the most I really do not like the way it's mastered. It's far too squished, it doesn't suit the material at all, which needs to be light and ethereal.
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feline1973 

Anti-bot filter: London
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 24
Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:25 pm   

Pat Gleeson wrote:


Again, I agree. The problem is that the so called 'loudness war' has meant mastering has become so loud that vinyl - with all the limitations you have outlined quite correctly - have to use quieter masters than the superior digital formats. .


This isn't always the case though. This month's Sound on Sound has a piece on the latest Metallica album (I think it's still behind the site paywall unless you're a subscriber) -
I've never listened to Metallica in my life, but I gather the previous album was one of the most infamous examples of "brickwall mastering" ever released, and really brought the "loudness wars" to a head.
The producer of their new album says they only supplied a single master, there was no special "vinyl master" created, so he was bemused that people had been saying the vinyl sounded better than the CD on account of the "vinyl master" having been created with more dynamic range.
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Finaero 


Age: 28
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5132
Location: Finland
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:14 pm   

Anyone remember which video this screencap is from?

http://www.zoolook.nl/for...p=191527#191527

In any case, that's from the "JMJ praises Crapwater's work" video I mentioned at some point before. So with Sony as his record company and Perreau employed by them, we're not gonna get rid of him even if JMJ himself said that he didn't like the masters anyway.

But the eternal question remains, are the radio live recordings of Paris La Defense stored in an (extant) lossless format in the Europe 2 archives (or Mike Mansfeld's bathroom)? :punch:
 
Pat Gleeson 

Age: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1138
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:27 pm   

feline1973 wrote:

Yeah, and Dadwater does definately seem to be a dick!
The more I listen to Oxygene 3 ... It's far too squished, it doesn't suit the material at all, which needs to be light and ethereal.


Which is why I ripped from the vinyl - here's a Oxygene 17 comparison

Oxygene 17
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Concerts attended:
Destination Docklands 1988
Paris la Defense 1990
Europe in Concert - Wembley Stadium 1993
Oxygene Tour - Wembley Arena 1997
Theatre Marigny Paris 2007
Oxygene Tour - NCH Dublin 2008
2010 Tour - The 02 Dublin The 02 London (10-10-10)
Electronica Tour - 3Arena Dublin 2016
 
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