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Combo 310 Unique for Reason is now available.


Post Posted Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Billy Bunt


Posts: 15

Image

The Combo 310 Unique is now available for Reason for only $/€29! Featuring brand new, high quality stereo strings samples, and all the other voices from JP's own 310U, recorded both direct and miked, with the main 310U features, including the percussion select, largely intact. A basic delay and phaser effect are also included, plus a wealth of dual manual Combinators, plus plenty of Jarre-inspired presets.


https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... que-organ/

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g_D_Z90OIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHpX_yyd-w

SoundCloud demos:
https://soundcloud.com/thequixotes/sets ... ique-organ


Image
Post Posted Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:58 pm
Finaero


User avatar
Posts: 2606
Location: Finland
Likes given: 4
Likes received  : 2

Very nice! May finally lead me into buying that Reason...


... can it replicate the Oxygene 7 laser harp sound, though?
Post Posted Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:56 am
Billy Bunt


Posts: 15

Finaero wrote:Very nice! May finally lead me into buying that Reason...


... can it replicate the Oxygene 7 laser harp sound, though?
Thanks!

The Oxygene 7 lead wasn't done the 310U, afaict, or at least, not on an unmodified one: it clearly has an amp attack envelope. If it is 310, and it does sound 310ish, then either the percussion circuits are modified, or it might be processed in PT and an envelope added post recording. My guess though is it's a 310U like percussion sound (i.e, on Octave 4) recreated on other synth.

Whether that's correct or not, that said, on the Combo 310U I did add the ability to increase the amp env attack, so ironically using Combo 310U's Equinoxe 4 Lead patch, which is Octave 4, and plus a bit of attack time gets in you a right ballpark.

So basically, if Oxygene 7 used a 310U for the lead, then yes, Combo 310U can replicate it!
Post Posted Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:04 am
Analog-Umph


User avatar
Posts: 575
Location: Sydney, Australia
Likes given: 1

You know, you should do a vsti version out of this. You'd have significantly more customers.
It's one bit of gear that a lot of would be em musicians out there lust after.
Without faith nothing is possible. With it, nothing is impossible.
Post Posted Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:59 am
alienmachine


Posts: 3

Billy Bunt wrote:
Finaero wrote:Very nice! May finally lead me into buying that Reason...


... can it replicate the Oxygene 7 laser harp sound, though?
Thanks!

The Oxygene 7 lead wasn't done the 310U, afaict, or at least, not on an unmodified one: it clearly has an amp attack envelope. If it is 310, and it does sound 310ish, then either the percussion circuits are modified, or it might be processed in PT and an envelope added post recording. My guess though is it's a 310U like percussion sound (i.e, on Octave 4) recreated on other synth.

Whether that's correct or not, that said, on the Combo 310U I did add the ability to increase the amp env attack, so ironically using Combo 310U's Equinoxe 4 Lead patch, which is Octave 4, and plus a bit of attack time gets in you a right ballpark.

So basically, if Oxygene 7 used a 310U for the lead, then yes, Combo 310U can replicate it!
Wow! I just found out about this today! And went straight to buy it. Nice work! And the interface is gorgeous. I stopped working on my Reaktor version last year, as I started a new job with much less time to spend in any other things.

BUT, also today the great event we have waited for 10 years happened: Reaktor 6 was released! :peacemaan: I may start working in my Reaktor version again. But I don't want to compete with a commercial version, as it will be unfair for the developer anyway, so I may keep it for myself for the time being.

My only criticism to this instrument is that it is a sample version, hence the octave locked oscillators are out of phase. On the other hand, the virtual mode sounds very close, a little too brilliant for my taste, though. Keep the good work! By the way, I also bought the X-705 :nod:

The intro in Oxygene 7 is one preset tab of the Eminent 310, Octave 4'. Listen here I believe Radek mentioned this somewhere. The sound example is just my Reaktor oscillator through an All Pass and a 1-Pole low pass filter to smooth the waveform (with a bit of reverb), which basically is the way the 310 did it, or any other string machine anyhow: just one pulse oscillator through a different set of filters to create the different registers. The Combo 310 Unique has the preset. Rise the reverb tab a little in sample mode and it is exactly the same.

Good to hear there is a lot of interest in the old beloved Eminent still. I would have given anything to play with the real thing. But here in the States, I still have to find one.

Cheers :mrgreen:

Hugo (a.k.a. Alien Machine)
https://soundcloud.com/alien-machine/
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/community/reaktor-user-library/all/all/all/293233/
Post Posted Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:24 am
Analog-Umph


User avatar
Posts: 575
Location: Sydney, Australia
Likes given: 1

Hi Hugo, Richard from KVR ;)

This is your first post? I thought you had posted here before. I mean look at the join date!
You old rascal! :punch:
Without faith nothing is possible. With it, nothing is impossible.
Post Posted Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:11 am
alienmachine


Posts: 3

Analog-Umph wrote:Hi Hugo, Richard from KVR ;)

This is your first post? I thought you had posted here before. I mean look at the join date!
You old rascal! :punch:
I didn't even remember I HAD an account here! :nod:

Good to hear from you! I miss KVR and making music.

Sorry to hijack the thread :hypocrit:

Hugo
Post Posted Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:11 pm
Billy Bunt


Posts: 15

alienmachine wrote:
Wow! I just found out about this today! And went straight to buy it. Nice work! And the interface is gorgeous. I stopped working on my Reaktor version last year, as I started a new job with much less time to spend in any other things.

BUT, also today the great event we have waited for 10 years happened: Reaktor 6 was released! :peacemaan: I may start working in my Reaktor version again. But I don't want to compete with a commercial version, as it will be unfair for the developer anyway, so I may keep it for myself for the time being.

My only criticism to this instrument is that it is a sample version, hence the octave locked oscillators are out of phase. On the other hand, the virtual mode sounds very close, a little too brilliant for my taste, though. Keep the good work! By the way, I also bought the X-705 :nod:

The intro in Oxygene 7 is one preset tab of the Eminent 310, Octave 4'. Listen here I believe Radek mentioned this somewhere. The sound example is just my Reaktor oscillator through an All Pass and a 1-Pole low pass filter to smooth the waveform (with a bit of reverb), which basically is the way the 310 did it, or any other string machine anyhow: just one pulse oscillator through a different set of filters to create the different registers. The Combo 310 Unique has the preset. Rise the reverb tab a little in sample mode and it is exactly the same.
Thanks for all your comments.

To answer directly a couple of points.

Yes, that's true we can't phase sync these types of samples; but in practice when it comes to ensembles, I feel most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference, due the action of the ensemble itself. I've got that 310U sitting behind me right now, and I doubt I could tell the difference to a percentage significantly better than just guessing if the test were blind enough between that and the samples.

Phase-locking is required in organs to prevent phase-cancelling. But phase cancelling doesn't really occur when running through an ensemble because of the way the delay lines operate, it's frequency-modulated over three offset channels. I won't say it has no impact at all, but I've never noticed phase-cancelling with any ensemble samples in the past.

To an extent samples actually make the ensemble effect smoother. If you imagine that in the original machines all the notes are modulated at the end: the two LFOs are actually still fairly obvious, repeating roughly once every 2 seconds. In samples, certainly where the samples are per-note, that fixed modulation is now also per note, as it won't start in exactly the same place. So playing multiple notes now actually adds some useful overlap in the modulation, so action of the modulation itself is far less obvious.

So in one sense, yes, it's not identical to a real ensemble, but in another sense it's just as valid an approach with useful advantages of its own. If it had been technically possible back in 1972, it would likely would have been two LFOs per note to further mask the modulation effect. But then these were cheap, portable home or gigging organs, not Novachords ;) .

For non-ensemble organ tones, however, it's different as without phase-locking there can be some issues with certain voicing combinations causing phase-cancelling which results in certain harmonics being "lost". But in practice even then it rarely troubles me using samples. Indeed, no-one ever complains about running multi-oscillator synthesizers without phase sync and exactly the same effect occurring! (Or maybe they do, I tend to avoid KVR and Gearslutz ;) ). There's a world of difference between what may occasionally be noticeable when soloed, and minor issues that might remain audible in a mix; things like a bit of AC noise and the odd phase-cancelled harmonic simply gets masked.
Post Posted Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:58 pm
Analog-Umph


User avatar
Posts: 575
Location: Sydney, Australia
Likes given: 1

alienmachine wrote:I didn't even remember I HAD an account here! :nod:

Good to hear from you! I miss KVR and making music.

Sorry to hijack the thread :hypocrit:

Hugo
And I miss our long chats on making the best string ensemble in the world! :P :D
Billy Bunt wrote:If it had been technically possible back in 1972, it would likely would have been two LFOs per note to further mask the modulation effect.
Yeah that certainly would be interesting to hear implemented.
Without faith nothing is possible. With it, nothing is impossible.
Post Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:41 pm
alienmachine


Posts: 3

Billy Bunt wrote:
I've got that 310U sitting behind me right now
Man, I really envy you! I wish I could play with it. Your product is close enough, for the moment :nod:

I was not able to play with it more, as I just clean installed Windows 10 in my music machine. I'm extremely jealous of the interface, not just because I like it, but because I was planning to do something similar for Reaktor, using the same kind of organ tabs, instead of the ones on the 310.

The 2 (or even 3) LFOs per note was an idea very early. I believe Ken Freeman wanted to do something like that in his string symphonizer. Maybe I can play with it in Reaktor, just to hear hwo it sounds :mrgreen:

Cheers!

Hugo
Post Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:28 am
Analog-Umph


User avatar
Posts: 575
Location: Sydney, Australia
Likes given: 1

I never liked the sound of the Freeman ensemble, sounds too synthy.
And there is not much of a difference when comparing the Freeman and the Eminent actually, with the 2 different approaches to the chorus.

The harmonics of each note is really where the crafting is at, and what "makes" an instrument.
An example very close to home is the Eminent 310, that's what sets it apart from the ARP Solina String Ensemble.
Without faith nothing is possible. With it, nothing is impossible.







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