Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[Polarity]

I love it exactly because it is that buried in the mix, that's what makes it fit, and it only comes out to play (pun intended) when needed.

I've done some experimentation on Sytrus: http://www.sendspace.com/file/3t946t

You're right about the vibrato - was trying that out just today.

The other thing I noticed is that both this flute and the main lead on Oxygene 5 have a certain 'string' quality about them, they aren't just brass or wind like in quality.

I know I'm in terrible delay with these discussions, but...
isn't this sound just a flute from the Mellotron??
the choir you can hear later in Oxygene 2 is just the Mellotron Choir through Small Stone.
So maybe he used Mellotron also for the Flute counter melody.

[Analog-Umph]

Are you all sure the "fluty" sound on the left is ARP2600 Square?
I made it in Omnisphere with an ARP2600 Sine soundsource.
Honestly I'm not full satisfied with mine because I find it a bit flubby and missing some punch...
I will retry with Square soundsource, maybe that's the problem.

Yup it's the square wave alright . You answered your own question.
Sine waves are too pure to use for this sound.
The secret here is striking the right balance between the filter cut off and the ADR Amp envelope. Cut off is pretty low, the ADR is quick.

I know I'm in terrible delay with these discussions, but...
isn't this sound just a flute from the Mellotron??
the choir you can hear later in Oxygene 2 is just the Mellotron Choir through Small Stone.
So maybe he used Mellotron also for the Flute counter melody.

Don't worry about it.
We had a few discussions on this website about the source of that flute sound, we kinda concluded that is was an Eminent sound, as the Mellotrone flute is way too acoustic in timbre. This O2 flute however is more static, yet not too static. It has considerable reverb on it too. And some EQ for the lower keys, starting from about A4 down, to keep the fundamentals from being overbearing.

It's a pretty simple sound to recreate (using a harmonic additive synthesizer) (or a 3/4 oscillator subtractive), you need 3 or 4 harmonics for it. Adjusted correctly in amplitude. Then passed through the Solina chorus effect. That gives it that spacey feel and some thickness. Finally reverb and then Jarre styled hard panned delay.
I've done a couple of presets for myself and they sound just right.
You can use additive, subtractive or FM. Give it a try

[Beelooo]

It's a pretty simple sound to recreate (using a harmonic additive synthesizer) (or a 3/4 oscillator subtractive), you need 3 or 4 harmonics for it. Adjusted correctly in amplitude. Then passed through the Solina chorus effect. That gives it that spacey feel and some thickness. Finally reverb and then Jarre styled hard panned delay.
I've done a couple of presets for myself and they sound just right.
You can use additive, subtractive or FM. Give it a try

Hi Analog, just a question about the reverb. I always ask myself for the place of the reverb in JMJ track expecially in O2 and EQUI.

Is it a mono or stereo bus effet, or is it an insert on the track ?
The result may be very different in fact that the reverb effect won't pass in the delay effect.

Hope you'll understand what i mean !

[Analog-Umph]

Is it a mono or stereo bus effet, or is it an insert on the track ?
The result may be very different in fact that the reverb effect won't pass in the delay effect.

Hope you'll understand what i mean !

yeah, just keep it simple, that what J did.
insert mono. stereo on non-phased strings. I think everything else is dual mono, right?

with me the reverb effect goes well through the delay, what kind of problem are you having?

[radek tymecki]

mellotron flute? where?

[waldorf]

Matt made a sound on the Roland JP8000.

[Analog-Umph]

Matt made a sound on the Roland JP8000.

Man is made of cells with DNA.

[waldorf]

He tells me he used the SAWTOOTHH wave of OSC 2 on his JP8000.

You can hear this sound in isolation on his 'Oxy 2 breakdown' on his website.

[Analog-Umph]

Which sound are you talking about? The flute? Did you read the thread/this website?
It's a solved case.

[waldorf]

The sound refered to as the counter melody in the 2nd part of Oxygen 2.

Matt's cover is fantastic. Where can we hear yours? Could you post it here?

[Analog-Umph]

Matt's cover is fantastic.

Jarre's original is even better.

[waldorf]

Yes, its probably my overall favourite.

I was confused about those two Oxygene sounds. The ' flute ' is clearly a single squarewave and the ' counter melody ' a sawtooth. Matt uses the same sawtooth in his Oxygene 5 experiments.

You have a very comprehensive knowledge regarding the specifics of these timbres. Your covers must be outstanding. I'd love to hear them. Are they posted anywhere?

[Beelooo]

Is it a mono or stereo bus effet, or is it an insert on the track ?
The result may be very different in fact that the reverb effect won't pass in the delay effect.

Hope you'll understand what i mean !

yeah, just keep it simple, that what J did.
insert mono. stereo on non-phased strings. I think everything else is dual mono, right?

with me the reverb effect goes well through the delay, what kind of problem are you having?

Some troubles with the place of the reverb the mix, don't know how JMJ use the reverb with the technology he had at that time....but i won't give up !

[Polarity]

Yup it's the square wave alright . You answered your own question.
Sine waves are too pure to use for this sound.
The secret here is striking the right balance between the filter cut off and the ADR Amp envelope. Cut off is pretty low, the ADR is quick.

Don't worry about it.
We had a few discussions on this website about the source of that flute sound, we kinda concluded that is was an Eminent sound, as the Mellotrone flute is way too acoustic in timbre. This O2 flute however is more static, yet not too static. It has considerable reverb on it too. And some EQ for the lower keys, starting from about A4 down, to keep the fundamentals from being overbearing.

It's a pretty simple sound to recreate (using a harmonic additive synthesizer) (or a 3/4 oscillator subtractive), you need 3 or 4 harmonics for it. Adjusted correctly in amplitude. Then passed through the Solina chorus effect.
That gives it that spacey feel and some thickness.
Finally reverb and then Jarre styled hard panned delay.
I've done a couple of presets for myself and they sound just right.
You can use additive, subtractive or FM. Give it a try

Thank you very much Analog-Umph for your infos and suggestions.
Yes, I corrected the solo with the ARP2600 Square soundsource, and it's much better now.
I found that I was using the wrong filter this time and so the square sounded wrong. That's why I turned to a sine one.
Now I know what's the best Omnisphere filter for emulate the 4012 filter sound of the older ARP synths.

About the other sound: I would never guessed myself alone it could have been an Eminent sound.
But you all were right in your analysis.
Now I'm trying to reproduce it with the Eminent sampled library now.
Actually not having a real Solina, I don't have its chorus, so I don't know what to use for getting closer to that sound.
Do you have a real ARP Solina? Or you used an emulation?

Reverb before the panned clean source>delay Jarre's trick?
You mean in serial routing?
I read this also in some other thread, and I was going to ask...
normally people would put reverb as a parallel send of the clean source
or as a follow up to delays and other FXs.

When I've finished to modify my cover-replica sounds and fill the missing parts I'll upload an updated version on Soundcloud (For now there is the previous one).

cheers

[Beelooo]

Thank you very much Analog-Umph for your infos and suggestions.
Yes, I corrected the solo with the ARP2600 Square soundsource, and it's much better now.
I found that I was using the wrong filter this time and so the square sounded wrong. That's why I turned to a sine one.
Now I know what's the best Omnisphere filter for emulate the 4012 filter sound of the older ARP synths.

About the other sound: I would never guessed myself alone it could have been an Eminent sound.
But you all were right in your analysis.
Now I'm trying to reproduce it with the Eminent sampled library now.
Actually not having a real Solina, I don't have its chorus, so I don't know what to use for getting closer to that sound.
Do you have a real ARP Solina? Or you used an emulation?

Reverb before the panned clean source>delay Jarre's trick?
You mean in serial routing?
I read this also in some other thread, and I was going to ask...
normally people would put reverb as a parallel send of the clean source
or as a follow up to delays and other FXs.

When I've finished to modify my cover-replica sounds and fill the missing parts I'll upload an updated version on Soundcloud (For now there is the previous one).

cheers

Yes the O2 flute is definitly not the mellotron. I think there was a mistake since Live In your Living Room when everyone saw Dominique playing this part on flutotron...

Eminent users will certainly agree about a kind of Horn preset on the eminent with chorus (i don't think it was orbitone, right ?)

About the reverb, my problem is that i don't know if i'had to use serial routing/chaining in panned delay sound, or if i use a simple reverb insert in paralel bus.

I play again and again the Equinoxe 4 Eminent string part, L et R channel separatly and i ear the following :

in the delayed/stereo channel , we could ear what's sound like a kind of queue reverb effect of the mono channel

OR

maybe a kind of pan issue (maybe only 90% 95% percent of the signal is panned due to the use of analog devices, but that's just a supposition ).

It's subtle and not easy to ear for non train ears, or if you don't especially focus on it.

And that's a thing i also ear on the O2 album, so there might be something but i don't really know what