I don't know what to think about this
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:04 pm
We don't need more of these threads, people!
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I don't know what to think about this
Page 1 of 1
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:24 pm
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:50 pm
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:15 pm
So far, there is really no evidence that Jarre just used almost-complete-songs from the Groovebox on T&T. Keep in mind, there is no evidence yet that Jarre did NOT compose/program/get Tim to create those sounds and patterns before the Groovebox came out.
Let's look at the hard facts we can all agree on:
1) Tim Huifken is credited in the T&T booklet with special programming of the Groovebox (not just "programming" but SPECIAL programming, whatever that means).
2) Jarre himself is also credited with this instrument.
3) Jarre is known to have used Roland tools before, and has a good relationship with them.
4) Roland Europe and Roland Japan are the FIRST to be thanked in the booklet.
5) Tim Huifken is a Roland programmer, and a Jarre artistic collaborator (not just someone at Roland he consulted).
6) Jarre is known to receive prototypes of new synths/boxes
From all this, it is not hard to draw the POSSIBLE conclusion that Jarre and Tim together collaborated to create all these patterns, and gave some of them to Roland for use in the Groovebox. Even if the Groovebox came out in June 2006, Jarre could have been working on the album throughout 2004 and 2005 for all we know, then spend most of 2006 and early 2007 mixing and finetuning the album, and perhaps early 2006 he gave some stuff to Roland, through Tim.
Did not Jarre say he made 50 rough tracks for the album, then narrowed it down to 20 that they actually recorded and worked on, and chose 12 titles for the actual album? I recall that quote. And you know, sketching 50 tracks and recording 20 of them, and perfecting 12 of them is not done in 6 months after one box comes out, while you also have to work on a concert in a desert, not with Jarre's working habits (just think of how long it took for T&T to come out, and that he in the old days spent 2 years or more on each album). While not assuming anything here, I am saying it is quite POSSIBLE that the Groovebox patterns were created early enough for inclusion in the box itself.
Now, let's look at available facts that supports the theory of pressing play on the Groovebox:
1)...... ehm, there are no facts.
If you think #1 in that list should be this: "The sounds and patterns on T&T and in the Groovebox are the same" then you ASSUME that the Groovebox came first, the album later. And as Etienne would say, assumptions is the mother of all f*ckups.
Now, let's do some actual assuming just for the fun of it:
1) If Jarre credits a synth/box in his booklet, would he not know the fans would sooner or later recognise the patterns from that box? And subsequently go mad.
2) If Jarre worked with two Roland companies + one of their programmers, it must be for a reason, and could that reson be developing the Groovebox?
3) Could Jarre have given patterns to Roland so that other artists would use them too, and people would go "hey, Sophie Ellis Baxtor sounds like Jarre, cool...."?
Mysteries yet to be solved:
1) Why does not Roland mention Jarre in their promotional material? (Perhaps getting their products credited in the booklet is enough, or part of the deal.)
2) "Artistic collabortion" (a term used also in the old Michel Geiss days) can mean different things, but I doubt it only means "get Tim to press play so I dont have to".... or did Jarre hire Tim only for playing the Groovebox? I doubt it... why have one of the box's original programmers come in if you only want to play what is already in it.
Anyway, I am not defending the album because I dont like it so much, but I think some of you are overlooking facts, and also jumping to assumed conclusions based on previous frustration with his output the last years. Saying that the existence of sounds and patterns in the Groovebox on T&T is in itself evidence for "plagiarism"/fakeness is a chicken-and-egg situation that this argument alone cannot solve.
Let's look at the hard facts we can all agree on:
1) Tim Huifken is credited in the T&T booklet with special programming of the Groovebox (not just "programming" but SPECIAL programming, whatever that means).
2) Jarre himself is also credited with this instrument.
3) Jarre is known to have used Roland tools before, and has a good relationship with them.
4) Roland Europe and Roland Japan are the FIRST to be thanked in the booklet.
5) Tim Huifken is a Roland programmer, and a Jarre artistic collaborator (not just someone at Roland he consulted).
6) Jarre is known to receive prototypes of new synths/boxes
From all this, it is not hard to draw the POSSIBLE conclusion that Jarre and Tim together collaborated to create all these patterns, and gave some of them to Roland for use in the Groovebox. Even if the Groovebox came out in June 2006, Jarre could have been working on the album throughout 2004 and 2005 for all we know, then spend most of 2006 and early 2007 mixing and finetuning the album, and perhaps early 2006 he gave some stuff to Roland, through Tim.
Did not Jarre say he made 50 rough tracks for the album, then narrowed it down to 20 that they actually recorded and worked on, and chose 12 titles for the actual album? I recall that quote. And you know, sketching 50 tracks and recording 20 of them, and perfecting 12 of them is not done in 6 months after one box comes out, while you also have to work on a concert in a desert, not with Jarre's working habits (just think of how long it took for T&T to come out, and that he in the old days spent 2 years or more on each album). While not assuming anything here, I am saying it is quite POSSIBLE that the Groovebox patterns were created early enough for inclusion in the box itself.
Now, let's look at available facts that supports the theory of pressing play on the Groovebox:
1)...... ehm, there are no facts.
If you think #1 in that list should be this: "The sounds and patterns on T&T and in the Groovebox are the same" then you ASSUME that the Groovebox came first, the album later. And as Etienne would say, assumptions is the mother of all f*ckups.
Now, let's do some actual assuming just for the fun of it:
1) If Jarre credits a synth/box in his booklet, would he not know the fans would sooner or later recognise the patterns from that box? And subsequently go mad.
2) If Jarre worked with two Roland companies + one of their programmers, it must be for a reason, and could that reson be developing the Groovebox?
3) Could Jarre have given patterns to Roland so that other artists would use them too, and people would go "hey, Sophie Ellis Baxtor sounds like Jarre, cool...."?
Mysteries yet to be solved:
1) Why does not Roland mention Jarre in their promotional material? (Perhaps getting their products credited in the booklet is enough, or part of the deal.)
2) "Artistic collabortion" (a term used also in the old Michel Geiss days) can mean different things, but I doubt it only means "get Tim to press play so I dont have to".... or did Jarre hire Tim only for playing the Groovebox? I doubt it... why have one of the box's original programmers come in if you only want to play what is already in it.
Anyway, I am not defending the album because I dont like it so much, but I think some of you are overlooking facts, and also jumping to assumed conclusions based on previous frustration with his output the last years. Saying that the existence of sounds and patterns in the Groovebox on T&T is in itself evidence for "plagiarism"/fakeness is a chicken-and-egg situation that this argument alone cannot solve.
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:16 pm
I saw the first few seconds but I couldn't see anymore. My heart can't take it.
