Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[jp8000]

Seems a no win situation. Music is too loud, spoils the over-all enjoyment of the concert. Wearing ear plugs because the music is too loud again spoils the over-all enjoyment of the concert.
Why doesn't Jarre's mom come along to the concerts. Atleast if he's playing the music too loud, his mom can shout. . . .
"Jean Michel!, turn that music down. I've told you before. You have it up too loud. What will the neighbours think."
That's what moms do.

But his mom was at that concert Robi pointed at...

[jeanbatman]

Most venues/Countries have restrictions/Guide lines on safe Noise Pressure levels,Jarre and crew would have to abide by those,so dependant on where your seated to the PA would be a personal preference on how much noise you can withstand safely and comfortably.....It also depends on the venue size and capacity also,smaller venues will always be louder by comparison due to reverberation and Human saturation/Reflection of soundwaves

your never going to withstand as much pressure on the ears if you sit nearer to the speakers than someone at the rear of the venue?thats why I never ever sit at the front of any concert(and from a visual restrictive aspect too)

on a more personal level,I have always worn earplugs at any concert I have attended,it has never been any less enjoyable,(infact probably more so as I don't end up with ringing in the ears afterwards),the ones I have are purpose fit to my ears so after a while you don't realise your wearing them they are that snug and comfy,I protect my hearing mainly as its paramount to my ability to do my Job,plus I don't want to prematurly damage my hearing,if anything using ear protection(especially purpose ones)you hear far more detailing in the music as your not being blasted or overpowered by prominent Frequencies in hi and lo ranges

this Guy who complained about the level of db in the Venue,if he was as much a respected musician himself like he claims,then I would have thought using ear protection in such a loud Environment would be paramount to his enjoyment of music,if not sit at home and listen to the CD at a more comfortablel level you can control.Its like someone complaining about the amount of smoke in a room full of people Smoking

[Equinoxe]

this Guy who complained about the level of db in the Venue,if he was as much a respected musician himself like he claims,then I would have thought using ear protection in such a loud Environment would be paramount to his enjoyment of music,if not sit at home and listen to the CD at a more comfortablel level you can control.Its like someone complaining about the amount of smoke in a room full of people Smoking

I seriously hope you are directing this just to the guy claiming to be a respected musician and not to the average Jarre fan. You can't seriously suggest that we should all bring earplugs to the concert, right? I'm glad I bought some extra ones for my mom and her boyfriend, but to be honest, I'm somewhat ashamed in Jarre's stead that I even need to think of this. Jarre's public does not consist of 15 year old teenagers who only care about decibels.

In either case... I'm bringing earplugs, though not custom molded ones unfortunately... And out of curiosity, I'm bringing my decibel meter to the concert tomorrow.

[GlennFolkvord]

New outdoor concert will be announced tomorrow, see here

[Equinoxe]

I seriously hope you are directing this just to the guy claiming to be a respected musician and not to the average Jarre fan. You can't seriously suggest that we should all bring earplugs to the concert, right?

In either case... I'm bringing earplugs, though not custom molded ones unfortunately... And out of curiosity, I'm bringing my decibel meter to the concert tomorrow

No I'm not saying you should bring earplugs.........Thats yours or any other persons Decision,

I choose to use Earplugs(I even use them in fairly loud Monitoring studio Mixing sessions too)I understand the dangers of exposing myself to these sorts of sound pressure levels and the fact my hearing is paramount to what I do,so protecting it is something I choose to do without stopping myself enjoying going to concerts etc,

Any person who is involved in a day to day situation of loud or excessive decibel levels of Music or sound should take steps to reduce the exposing of such levels,either by avoiding it or reducing the risk in the situation,Musicians are one of the most susceptible to this and would say most of them don't notice the difference after years of doing it as they like to listen to music in loud situations so simply don't hear any impairment but they could have reduced the hearing loss by using earplugs in some cases,the correct type don't muffle out Frequencies in the sound just reduce the decibel level

I hate to think how many Kids of today will have premature hearing loss due to the Ipod revolution

I do not wish to Impair my hearing by exposing myself to unneeded levels of noise and increasing the chance of any damage so I choose to wear Custom moulded plugs in the studio and other Extortionate Sound pressure situations.

[Quicky]

Ok, I fully agree with you. I'm just sad that Jarre apparently feels the need to adhere to these ridiculous sound level standards... What's the point?

[GlennFolkvord]

Ok, I fully agree with you. I'm just sad that Jarre apparently feels the need to adhere to these ridiculous sound level standards... What's the point?

I read in one of the blog posts that when the acoustic quality of the venuue is bad, they have to crank up the volume to compensate for bad reverb, or the placement of speakers, or whatever.

I've always felt that sound quality is chosen over volume in Jarre's concerts, so I think it's not an accident if the volume is loud sometimes. His engineers are not trainees from the local music school.

[jeanbatman]

(..)And out of curiosity, I'm bringing my decibel meter to the concert tomorrow.

So, what's the results ? Please...

[Robi]

French are not too active filming the concerts...

[Equinoxe]

Ok, I fully agree with you. I'm just sad that Jarre apparently feels the need to adhere to these ridiculous sound level standards... What's the point?

I read in one of the blog posts that when the acoustic quality of the venuue is bad, they have to crank up the volume to compensate for bad reverb, or the placement of speakers, or whatever.

I've always felt that sound quality is chosen over volume in Jarre's concerts, so I think it's not an accident if the volume is loud sometimes. His engineers are not trainees from the local music school.

I'm of the opposite opinion here I think the Sound Quality was poor on the venue I intended last year increasing volumes only makes it more difficult to hear whats lacking if Jarre's engineers are having trouble adjusting the sound to different venues then I Would Question there Engineering skills per se if they have little knowledge why the hell is someone as high profile as him using people that lack sonic knowledge to be flexible to venues does he not have any input over the sound Quality or even check his mixes??

I'd have thought someone as him would be doing much of that FOH himself alongside a decent audio engineer as I'm sure someone as experienced as Jarre to unusal acoustic environments would be well versed with such Sound checking and also that they would have certain PA configurations dependant on Venue size In most Tours a one size fits all doesn't really work especially with no control over acoustics from one venue to another

I get the impression that they stick to a set automation mix and PA that was executed in a studio enviroment prior to the tour and simply just alter the overall volume dependant on the Venue rather than tailouring the sound according to venue acoustics,which may work in some cases but not all Venues judging on the complaints of it being far too Loud,thats a problematic issue with sticking to the same settings and Speaker amp configuration with little compensation for the Audio and acoustic aspect of mixing in a different venue

The concert I attended last year felt the Mixing was of poor quality on some tracks there was distortion from bass prominence rather than even responce and even bass dropouts on a few tracks,you could also hear them adjusting the mix on a few tracks which was badly executed and also hear the click track??hardly the work of professional audio guys who by the time I seen them were well into the Tour so should have ironed out these things!


I've seen many bands at the same venue so know its not the acoustic environment to blame,for poor sound Quality and have worked with various Audio experts in Live and studio enviroments that can tailor the sound to the venues and as People have been complaining about the high volume at some concerts it would appear that so long as its loud it sounds ok to the FOH guys,which is wrong because soundchecking before when its emtpy always presents different reverberation issues when the crowd is in the environment as it totally changes the Acoustics again
maybe I'm picky or just fussy about how the Music should sound according to my own standards and knowledge in audio but I find it difficult to understand why Jarre lets these things become an issue given he's such a perfectionist it seems rather Substandard for a Guy of his experience and Profile

[GlennFolkvord]

I think it's quite ridiculous to suggest that JMJ's engineers dont have expertise or experience in what they do. Alain Courieux is one of the most experienced sound engineers in France with over 30 years in the business. They always do as thorough soundchecks as they can, you should know that by now. Jarre even visited many of the French venues beforehand to check everything, that's not something the average artist does. If they could not get the best sound YOU like, it's not due to bad judgement, but problems beyond their control. Or just taste.

Few places offer insight to the mixing and sound of a JMJ concert but here is one link from last year's tour. Some of it may still apply.

http://www.tpimagazine.com/production-p ... jarre.html

p.s. Punctuation is a nice invention.

[Equinoxe]

I think it's quite ridiculous to suggest that JMJ's engineers dont have expertise or experience in what they do. Alain Courieux is one of the most experienced sound engineers in France with over 30 years in the business. They always do as thorough soundchecks as they can, you should know that by now. Jarre even visited many of the French venues beforehand to check everything, that's not something the average artist does. If they could not get the best sound YOU like, it's not due to bad judgement, but problems beyond their control. Or just taste.

Few places offer insight to the mixing and sound of a JMJ concert but here is one link from last year's tour. Some of it may still apply.

http://www.tpimagazine.com/production-p ... jarre.html

p.s. Punctuation is a nice invention.

Look I'm not suggesting these guys are freshmans in their field,what I'm looking at is the bigger picture,I have good expectations of this newer tour,JMJ seems to be showing more of an interest in the overall sound,which appears more involvement than was previously shown,the fact he's been eyespying the venues prior to Shows,gives an indication of his attention to detail,perhaps more than was shown previously and either that he was not happy with past efforts or that he knew things could be improved from issues in last shows these were things that a pro Engineer should have fixed before taking the show out,Things go wrong on tour but those things were issues that Human error/Judgement had clearly prevailed not equipment faults

What I'm trying to underline here is that given they do a critical soundcheck prior to going Live it appeared that they were trying to fix things during showtime,which with various other issues that seemed to be happening wasn't of the ethic of someone with 30 plus years experience or using a high end Digital desk with as much automation as you can shake a stick at,or the fact they had competed x amount of shows prior to the one I attended,cranking the Volume to compensate for reverberation issues doesn't sound of the knowledge of someone with his experience(although other than Jarre involvment never heard of the guy)at the end of the day the Equipment and sound are as only as good as the craftsman


its not about tailoring the sound to my Preference but about sound Quality overall which wasn't shown for this show for a third of it to the standard it should be,and the fact Jarre is having more input into the FOH sound in the tour speaks volumes about his Preference also about the audio Quality from prior efforts or that he wasn't happy with how it was being executed it seemed like he had less involement in it prior to this which wasn't case with other shows he's done

[tinmachine]

Just got back to the UK from Paris. Great concert at Bercy last night, best one in Paris since La Defense in my opinion (been to PLD, CPLT, ENights, Apple Expo) ...

But why?

Equinoxe 7 and Equinoxe 5

Highlight for me was these 2 tracks, amazing. Best Equinoxe 5 I've heard live (although not sure about the solo bit at the end) - loved the laser effects. Also, RV4, Chrono 6, Oxy 12 and Souvenir of China and Eq 4 for the visuals. In actual fact, the visuals were the biggest improvement of all over InDoors 2009.

So - now, the dislikes...

OXYGENE 5 and VARIATIONS 3 - utter rubbish in my opinion. The Variations bit went on for far too long.
The twiddly thing (it's name eludes met) but whenever JMJ twisted it it let out the most deafeningly crap noise, Spoilt Oxygene 1 a bit, and well least said about Variations 3 the better!

OXYGENE 4 - great song, great world projection, not so great solo lead - I couldn't hear it. It just ended up with the link between chorus and solo being repeated again and again and again. The solo was there if you strained your ears to hear it...

The new Adagio piece. For me, it doesn't go anywhere, and doesn't come across as particularly memorable. It needs developing a heck of a lot more if it is going to appear on any forthcoming studio release.

There are tracks he could drop and replace with others - Oxy 1/2, MF 1, the new piece, Oxy5/Var3, Ind Rev 2 and it would have still been an equally good show.

Having said that, with the exception of Oxy5/Var 3, it was a great show. And even my wife, who hates instrumental music, enjoyed it except for that bit.

Looking forward to the next one

[GlennFolkvord]

its not about tailoring the sound to my Preference but about sound Quality overall which wasn't shown for this show for a third of it to the standard it should be,and the fact Jarre is having more input into the FOH sound in the tour speaks volumes about his Preference also about the audio Quality from prior efforts or that he wasn't happy with how it was being executed it seemed like he had less involement in it prior to this which wasn't case with other shows he's done

I dont think Jarre is having more input to the FOH sound now than before, I think he always cared a lot about that. I've seen lots of pics and even the man himself in person sit in the audience area prior to concerts, big and small, checking the PA sound. This is something he has done a lot. Second, he now hired Alain C. for the third time in a row, which speaks volumes about how satisfied he is with him. And we know JMJ is a perfectionist, that's why he in his blog speaks about trying to improve all the time. And we also knew that before. If JMJ had doubts about Alain, he would have hired him again and again. Third, audio quality isnt only down to equipment failure or poor craftmanship, but also the venue itself, how many instruments you pour into the mix, what kind of instruments you play, rehearsal time, etc. It's a different thing with a rock band with drums, bass, guitar and one synth, than perhaps 10 synths at one time. I think they never do just 4 synths (because of 4 musicians) this time round, something is sequenced and something is triggered on top of something else. The nature of everything doesnt always allow the best results. I think overall, people were satisfied with the sound in both 2009 and 2010.

My point is, I dont think poor sound quality, when it happens, is down to poor judgement or lack of experience or lack of interest. I am sure it happens occasionally, but not because they are not competent. One of the designers of the sound system even joined the 2009 tour as sound engineer.

From the link I included:

"Jarre’s dedication to his craft was evident throughout the time I spent observing his interaction with musicians Claude Samard, Francis Rimbert and Dominique Perrier, and the sound and lighting teams. He arrived at Wembley 90 minutes before the scheduled soundcheck, adjusted FOH settings and hopped in and out of various seats, making sure he was happy with the way the show looked from different audience positions. No less than a two-hour production rehearsal , this was the most thorough soundcheck I have ever experienced."

If this indicates the rule, then enough said

[Jon]

Just got back to the UK from Paris. Great concert at Bercy last night, best one in Paris since La Defense in my opinion (been to PLD, CPLT, ENights, Apple Expo) ...

But why?

Equinoxe 7 and Equinoxe 5

Highlight for me was these 2 tracks, amazing. Best Equinoxe 5 I've heard live (although not sure about the solo bit at the end) - loved the laser effects. Also, RV4, Chrono 6, Oxy 12 and Souvenir of China and Eq 4 for the visuals. In actual fact, the visuals were the biggest improvement of all over InDoors 2009.

So - now, the dislikes...

OXYGENE 5 and VARIATIONS 3 - utter rubbish in my opinion. The Variations bit went on for far too long.
The twiddly thing (it's name eludes met) but whenever JMJ twisted it it let out the most deafeningly crap noise, Spoilt Oxygene 1 a bit, and well least said about Variations 3 the better!

OXYGENE 4 - great song, great world projection, not so great solo lead - I couldn't hear it. It just ended up with the link between chorus and solo being repeated again and again and again. The solo was there if you strained your ears to hear it...

The new Adagio piece. For me, it doesn't go anywhere, and doesn't come across as particularly memorable. It needs developing a heck of a lot more if it is going to appear on any forthcoming studio release.

There are tracks he could drop and replace with others - Oxy 1/2, MF 1, the new piece, Oxy5/Var3, Ind Rev 2 and it would have still been an equally good show.

Having said that, with the exception of Oxy5/Var 3, it was a great show. And even my wife, who hates instrumental music, enjoyed it except for that bit.

Looking forward to the next one

Thanks for the review, Tinmachine.

Yeah, I'm still sitting on the fence with that odd but quirky solo at the end of Eq5.